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Old 12-08-2021, 12:55 AM   #1
diosmuertos
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Default More TBI woes

Back at it with my 88 VG30i after four months of good behavior. Been chasing, solving, and re-afflicted with rough running/stalling issues for the better part of the year now. She'll buck around a bit under load and RPMS will bounce around then stall out.

-No codes
-New coil, plugs, cap/rotor, wires. have spare icm but have not installed yet
-Replaced all vacuum lines, cleaned charcoal purge valve, removed AIV and bypassed EGR
-replaced vac lines for brake booster and FPR as well
-new o2
-cleaned MAF
-new fuel and air filters
-Timing belt done last winter, double checked timing+belt alignment a few weeks ago and it was fine

I got real busy with work a few months ago and had to farm out brakes+shocks, it was OK around town but too sketchy to take out of state w how it ran. Mechanic suggested injector cleaner, which actually fixed it for some time after a few Techron tanks. The problem is back worse now, though, stalls at every red light and stop sign unless I seriously lay on the gas. Revs aren't limited. I was hoping to keep getting her drunk on PEA until spring and put off any decisions but seems like it's a winter problem. Going to try unplugging TPS, CTS, etc tomorrow when it's not 16ļ out to see if that makes a difference. Don't think it's the wax element, idle falls from around 1800 to 800 as it warms up but it fucks up the entire time no matter engine temp. Don't think it's any of the TBI or intake manifold gaskets, soaked everywhere down really good with carb cleaner and didn't notice any difference as it ran.

Basically at a crossroads:
1. Pull TBI, send injectors in for service, clean and rebuild TBI while I wait. Fuel def seems like a factor but not sure if whole picture. Around $80, but possibly lose out on $3-600/d gigs if it takes forever to get them back because of holidays and shipping problems. Plus I get the feeling it might be a combination of things and that's even more dough and down time diagnosing, ordering.
2. Slap a fuck it on it and spend money I don't have on the Weber kit which is now $600. Any problem mitigated and can investigate HEI dizzy or EI box in spring when work's busy again. Feels like an absolute cop out but once it shows up it's just a few afternoons of tinkering+tuning if I grab more vacuum caps+plugs for EGR and "stove pipe"


What do you guys think ? keep hammering at it or throw in the towel?
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Old 12-08-2021, 12:55 AM   #2
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Video 1 of problem

Video 2 of problem
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Old 12-08-2021, 02:29 AM   #3
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My hardbody did the same thing put out no where. I went thru my entire parts stash and changed everything….. plugs, wires, distributor, throttle body, MAF, TPS, relays and even cut into the engine harness and repaired some corroded connections. Nothing. Running like shit. I ripped that tbi system off and dumped 550 on the weber conversion and have been spanking it every time I take it for a spin.

I never found the problem. Well, I sort of found it. It was tbi related. It hasn’t skipped a beat with the carb.
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Old 12-08-2021, 02:57 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillacdude1975 View Post
My hardbody did the same thing put out no where. I went thru my entire parts stash and changed everythingÖ.. plugs, wires, distributor, throttle body, MAF, TPS, relays and even cut into the engine harness and repaired some corroded connections. Nothing. Running like shit. I ripped that tbi system off and dumped 550 on the weber conversion and have been spanking it every time I take it for a spin.

I never found the problem. Well, I sort of found it. It was tbi related. It hasnít skipped a beat with the carb.
Yeah man Iíve been reading some of your posts, did you end up getting the HEI on there yet? Seems fool proof but Iíve been looking into EI boxes too. It sucks to give up, but Iíve already got half a Weber in there lol. I troubleshoot for work and know the ghost in the machine doesnít exist, but letís face it these things are needlessly complicated and a weird bastard child tech. I want to go back to not worrying about it and having the bike take up wrench time
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Old 12-08-2021, 01:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diosmuertos View Post
Back at it with my 88 VG30i after four months of good behavior. Been chasing, solving, and re-afflicted with rough running/stalling issues for the better part of the year now. She'll buck around a bit under load and RPMS will bounce around then stall out.

-No codes
-New coil, plugs, cap/rotor, wires. have spare icm but have not installed yet
-Replaced all vacuum lines, cleaned charcoal purge valve, removed AIV and bypassed EGR
-replaced vac lines for brake booster and FPR as well
-new o2
-cleaned MAF
-new fuel and air filters
-Timing belt done last winter, double checked timing+belt alignment a few weeks ago and it was fine

I got real busy with work a few months ago and had to farm out brakes+shocks, it was OK around town but too sketchy to take out of state w how it ran. Mechanic suggested injector cleaner, which actually fixed it for some time after a few Techron tanks. The problem is back worse now, though, stalls at every red light and stop sign unless I seriously lay on the gas. Revs aren't limited. I was hoping to keep getting her drunk on PEA until spring and put off any decisions but seems like it's a winter problem. Going to try unplugging TPS, CTS, etc tomorrow when it's not 16ļ out to see if that makes a difference. Don't think it's the wax element, idle falls from around 1800 to 800 as it warms up but it fucks up the entire time no matter engine temp. Don't think it's any of the TBI or intake manifold gaskets, soaked everywhere down really good with carb cleaner and didn't notice any difference as it ran.

Basically at a crossroads:
1. Pull TBI, send injectors in for service, clean and rebuild TBI while I wait. Fuel def seems like a factor but not sure if whole picture. Around $80, but possibly lose out on $3-600/d gigs if it takes forever to get them back because of holidays and shipping problems. Plus I get the feeling it might be a combination of things and that's even more dough and down time diagnosing, ordering.
2. Slap a fuck it on it and spend money I don't have on the Weber kit which is now $600. Any problem mitigated and can investigate HEI dizzy or EI box in spring when work's busy again. Feels like an absolute cop out but once it shows up it's just a few afternoons of tinkering+tuning if I grab more vacuum caps+plugs for EGR and "stove pipe"


What do you guys think ? keep hammering at it or throw in the towel?
The MAIN problem is that the Japanese engineers who invented the TBI system were trying to pass the tougher US emissions. And none of these guys envisioned people driving under that same TBI system more than 30 years later. Everything is symbiotic in these systems. Everything depends on everything else to work at all times for perfect running.

If you want out of this problem, then one answer is to go for a hardbody made after 1990, (straight fuel rail injection instead of TBI) or most preferably, the last two years of the hardbody, aka the 96-97 model years, since they had the new OBD-2 diagnostic system installed with the plug in for your code reader down by the fuse box.

Otherwise, you will always be dealing with these little problems.
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Old 12-08-2021, 03:50 PM   #6
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Probably a long shot, but worth mentioning; If the problem happens after running a bit, but not right away after it has sat, you might have sediment in the tank that is collecting around the pickup screen as it runs and choking down the system. It will usually fall away from the screen when the engine is shut off.
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Old 12-09-2021, 12:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XoXSciFiGuy View Post
The MAIN problem is that the Japanese engineers who invented the TBI system were trying to pass the tougher US emissions. And none of these guys envisioned people driving under that same TBI system more than 30 years later. Everything is symbiotic in these systems. Everything depends on everything else to work at all times for perfect running.

If you want out of this problem, then one answer is to go for a hardbody made after 1990, (straight fuel rail injection instead of TBI) or most preferably, the last two years of the hardbody, aka the 96-97 model years, since they had the new OBD-2 diagnostic system installed with the plug in for your code reader down by the fuse box.

Otherwise, you will always be dealing with these little problems.
Seriously, go buy a newer truck is your advice?
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Old 12-09-2021, 12:48 AM   #8
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Try this:

FIX: erratic idle, low speed driveability, possibly more
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Old 12-09-2021, 01:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XoXSciFiGuy View Post
The MAIN problem is that the Japanese engineers who invented the TBI system were trying to pass the tougher US emissions. And none of these guys envisioned people driving under that same TBI system more than 30 years later. Everything is symbiotic in these systems. Everything depends on everything else to work at all times for perfect running.

If you want out of this problem, then one answer is to go for a hardbody made after 1990, (straight fuel rail injection instead of TBI) or most preferably, the last two years of the hardbody, aka the 96-97 model years, since they had the new OBD-2 diagnostic system installed with the plug in for your code reader down by the fuse box.

Otherwise, you will always be dealing with these little problems.
True, and I haven't had any of this difficulty on my old 95 and 94. That being said, this thing's a gem, SE trim, rust free. I'm more concerned with trying to find the most elegant "2021" solution. Especially as the vehicle that takes me to work. All signs point to a fuel issue (ECU as dumb as it is says TPS etc are fine in the other diagnostic modes). No reason to take it off the road just because Nissan engineers had to punt on EPA regs 34 years ago. Parts avail and cost issues are pointing to carb as a solution. It's not like putting a Weber on a Titan. Kind of need to "pick one" and carb is more my budget and skill set vs swapping a VG30e intake etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reserector
Probably a long shot, but worth mentioning; If the problem happens after running a bit, but not right away after it has sat, you might have sediment in the tank that is collecting around the pickup screen as it runs and choking down the system. It will usually fall away from the screen when the engine is shut off.
I'd thought about that, what's the best way to deal with that? It's about 30-45sec before it acts up. I've cleaned bike tanks before. I guess run it (almost) dry, drain, vinegar + agitation, gas rinse, coat w fogging oil? Sounds like a spring project lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp2code
Try this:
Thanks, didn't know that wasn't just the KA.

Last edited by diosmuertos; 12-09-2021 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 12-09-2021, 01:38 AM   #10
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Well the lady forced my hand and put the Redline kit on her credit card lol. Said I was being too stubborn about "solving" it. That's the Path so far, but def going to think about a tank clean in spring and check those wires out while I wait for the carb to show up. Maybe headers too if I'm feeling inspired, just trying to get this thing going like a sewing machine and "future proof" it as much as possible. Thank you again guys, it's really hard to find good VG30i info out there.
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