Go Back   Infamous Nissan - Hardbody / Frontier Forums > Model Specific > Hardbody Forum (D21)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-24-2020, 07:23 AM   #1
Birdman74
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 15
Vehicle: Nissan D21 4x4 1991
Thanks: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default 91 D21 sputtering

I have a 91 D21 4x4 with the 2.4l KA 24E engine in it. I just recently had the head gasket,water pump,thermostat and radiator replaced in it. Before all of this it had a severe sputtering before which I thought was due to the head gasket being blown. All that was replaced and while in the shop they found that 2 of my injectors were bad and replaced them as well and it ran good . Now to my issue. After a good bit of money was spent to fix all this plus rebuild the front end suspension I was driving it home from work the other day and stopped to get gas. I filled it up and went to leave the pump and it died on me. Thinking I'd dumped the clutch to quick I restarted it and drove off. But when I did it lacked all power and sputtered and shuttered bad enough I couldn't get out of 2nd gear. I changed the plugs out an put a new fuel filter on it and it still doing it. Any suggestions on what it could be cause I've spent way to much money on this and don't want another $500 or more to put into the truck . Thanks for the help
Birdman74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2020, 08:11 AM   #2
XoXSciFiGuy
 
XoXSciFiGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 2,265
Vehicle: 1997 D21 King Cab XE 2WD, 1998 Pathfinder.
Thanks: 136
Thanked 393 Times in 360 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman74 View Post
I have a 91 D21 4x4 with the 2.4l KA 24E engine in it. I just recently had the head gasket,water pump,thermostat and radiator replaced in it. Before all of this it had a severe sputtering before which I thought was due to the head gasket being blown. All that was replaced and while in the shop they found that 2 of my injectors were bad and replaced them as well and it ran good . Now to my issue. After a good bit of money was spent to fix all this plus rebuild the front end suspension I was driving it home from work the other day and stopped to get gas. I filled it up and went to leave the pump and it died on me. Thinking I'd dumped the clutch to quick I restarted it and drove off. But when I did it lacked all power and sputtered and shuttered bad enough I couldn't get out of 2nd gear. I changed the plugs out an put a new fuel filter on it and it still doing it. Any suggestions on what it could be cause I've spent way to much money on this and don't want another $500 or more to put into the truck . Thanks for the help
FYI: There are better experts here than me. I wanted to say that right off. But I tried to put myself in your shoes, and think about how I would approach this problem.

Okay...first thing is you have to determine whether this is a gas-delivery problem to the engine, or a spark problem.

A high speed miss or stumbling at freeway speeds, on the flat...when the engine otherwise runs good...is almost always a FUEL delivery problem.

A bad miss, or stumbling while going up steep hills (under load) is usually a spark or ignition problem.

The problem is...a bad idle and no power at low speeds, on the flat...can be EITHER of these things. ANOTHER problem, less likely, is bad gasoline. I had the problem you have right now when I had my 1989 four banger. Turned out there was too much water being sucked into the ethanol gasoline I was buying at my Fred Meyers. (Big discounts, so I was going there a lot.) Ethanol in gasoline is no big deal, but when it is transported or delivered incorrectly, it sucks up water vapor from the atmosphere like a damn sponge and can make older vehicles run like crap.

So first thing...if you are going to cheap ass gas stations, stop doing that and use a premium brand. This is just general principles to be safe and probably is not the problem. I use Chevron Supreme exclusively now. Sometimes Arco Supreme. The major fuel stations know how to handle ethanol-added fuel. Mom and Pop stores, Seven-Eleven, and the like...not so much. They often use cheap fuel distribution companies who don't give a shit.

Okay...so you start the truck in the driveway and hopefully you can get it to idle, even if it stumbles. What you have to find out is whether you have bad spark going somewhere, or there is a fuel delivery problem. Shut off the engine and pull your fuel pump fuse under the dashboard. Take out each spark plug one at a time and lay it on metal somewhere, crank the engine a few times to see if you get solid blue spark on each one. (leave the spark plug wire in place, of course.) This test actually works better after dark.

Good steady spark and its blue? Probably not ignition component problem. Yellow or weak spark on one or more? Start with new cap and rotor. I'm not sure if the 91's have an ignition control module on the distributor, but if so those are always suspect. (Someone will chime in here) If there IS an ignition control module, those are famous for going out PART WAY. They will warm up and either stop working or just work intermittently. I had this happen on a 82 280 ZX. Ran fine for a while, then as the engine warmed either the motor would quit, or it would run like crap. I don't know if your engine has this module, though.

Are you getting a Check Engine light? Get the code for it.

When the engine is cold, run your finger around the exhaust pipe. Grey fluff in there? That's normal. Black powder? Running too rich. Oily? Very bad. The exhaust throws water out the back so don't mistake that for oil.

You have fuel rail injection. This is good. Need to test your outgoing fuel pressure. Should be at least 37 pounds or so. (*I think*) Gotta find out if the engine is even getting enough fuel. If fuel pressure is good...then I would start looking at the injectors. Did they install the correct ones? Are the other two gone out, since you had the other two replaced?

On a general note, I've come to the idea that going cheap on any tune up parts for these trucks is just a bad idea. Use high quality spark plug wires, solid distributor cap and rotor, and recommended NGK or Denso plugs. That shit is reliable and at least you can eliminate something there as a problem.

Wish I could help more, but I'm sure some smarter folks will jump in here to assist. Good luck.
__________________

1997 King Cab XE, 5-sp, canopy, AC/PS, KA24E, 120,000 miles. Need a technical manual? Drop me a message. Chilton's for amateurs.

Last edited by XoXSciFiGuy; 01-24-2020 at 08:28 AM.
XoXSciFiGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Birdman74 (01-24-2020)
Old 01-24-2020, 08:14 AM   #3
ohgood
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: AL
Posts: 37
Vehicle: 95 ex
Thanks: 25
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman74 View Post
I have a 91 D21 4x4 with the 2.4l KA 24E engine in it. I just recently had the head gasket,water pump,thermostat and radiator replaced in it. Before all of this it had a severe sputtering before which I thought was due to the head gasket being blown. All that was replaced and while in the shop they found that 2 of my injectors were bad and replaced them as well and it ran good . Now to my issue. After a good bit of money was spent to fix all this plus rebuild the front end suspension I was driving it home from work the other day and stopped to get gas. I filled it up and went to leave the pump and it died on me. Thinking I'd dumped the clutch to quick I restarted it and drove off. But when I did it lacked all power and sputtered and shuttered bad enough I couldn't get out of 2nd gear. I changed the plugs out an put a new fuel filter on it and it still doing it. Any suggestions on what it could be cause I've spent way to much money on this and don't want another $500 or more to put into the truck . Thanks for the help
sounds like bad gas
ohgood is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Birdman74 (01-24-2020)
Old 01-24-2020, 11:38 AM   #4
Birdman74
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 15
Vehicle: Nissan D21 4x4 1991
Thanks: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I use RaceTrac for my gas. Seems to be the only place i can get decent gas mileage out of. I did replace the plugs with NGK plugs and a new fuel filter. It sputters when its cranked up (idle) and its worse when I give it gas. As far as the other 2 injectors they have not been replaced but that may be next as well as a new fuel tank and pump. The ignition coil and module have been ordered to be replaced just waiting to get those. Thanks for the help it is greatly appreciated
Birdman74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2020, 11:42 AM   #5
Birdman74
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Georgia
Posts: 15
Vehicle: Nissan D21 4x4 1991
Thanks: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Have also read that removing the fuel rail and cleaning that could be an issue too as it could have sucked trash from tank into injectors( not sure how long tank has been on truck prolly since it was made). When this happened I was between a 1/2 and a 1/4 tank of gas thats why im thinking its sucked something up in the injectors
Birdman74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2020, 01:58 PM   #6
robson1015
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Ohio
Age: 60
Posts: 49
Vehicle: 1993 Nissan QMD21 (Japanese fire truck)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Default

After repairs how long did it run good before it started sputtering?? Could it be a timing issue?? Could be as simple as adjusting the distributor.
robson1015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Birdman74 (01-27-2020)
Old 01-24-2020, 02:28 PM   #7
OldGreyBeast
1986.5 HB 4x4 3.0V6
 
OldGreyBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: North AL
Age: 32
Posts: 3,813
Vehicle: 1986.5 Nissan D21, 1987 Mercedes 190D Turbo, 2010 Mercedes E350 AWD, 2017 Honda CBR500R
Thanks: 350
Thanked 466 Times in 406 Posts
Default

You may want to check for vacuum leaks as well. Have you checked codes on the ECU?
__________________
Build log for the Beast - https://beastbuildlog.blogspot.com - Last Updated 18 OCT 2016
1986.5 FSM GI section - https://imgur.com/gallery/mjT18bV

OldGreyBeast is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Birdman74 (01-27-2020)
Old 01-24-2020, 04:18 PM   #8
VOTS95
 
VOTS95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 340
Vehicle: 95 XE V6 4x4 5 Sp
Thanks: 40
Thanked 81 Times in 63 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman74 View Post
As far as the other 2 injectors they have not been replaced but that may be next as well as a new fuel tank and pump. The ignition coil and module have been ordered to be replaced just waiting to get those. Thanks for the help it is greatly appreciated
It ran normal then you filled up with gas and then it started to sputter.

My first thought was "limp home mode", I agree with OGB on the vacuum leak and checking for codes. When they replaced the head-gasket, they may have damaged a vacuum hose that has since worked it's way off its connection. I assume the shop tested all four of your injectors and found two that didn't pass the test. I wouldn't think that the other two have gone bad in the meantime.

I've gotten bad gas before and my car ran like crap until it was gone but it was never so bad that I couldn't accelerate up to the speed limit.

I'd try the simple things/tests/codes first. Parts like wires, cap, plugs, rotor, etc. "wear" over time and tend not to just go bad from one moment to the next. You can clean up most of those to a serviceable condition and mark them off your list. Replacing the tank, fuel pump and two injectors will set you back some cash. What would you do if you replaced those and the truck still ran the same?

I'd keep it simple at first, then work my way up from there. GL

VOTS
VOTS95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Birdman74 (01-27-2020)
Old 01-24-2020, 06:07 PM   #9
XoXSciFiGuy
 
XoXSciFiGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 2,265
Vehicle: 1997 D21 King Cab XE 2WD, 1998 Pathfinder.
Thanks: 136
Thanked 393 Times in 360 Posts
Default

The only thing I might NEVER clean is the contacts on the cap or the rotor. If you see corrosion on the contacts and clean it off...I have *heard* that this just makes it worse. Better to replace.

I agree with Grey Beast and the others about starting with the simple stuff before going the fuel pump/fuel tank replacement route. Do you hear that two-second 'whirring' sound when you first turn key to ON position? Fuel pump probably fine.

Generally speaking, you have to pretty much run the tank dry to suck up crap from the tank. I've had the Fuel Warning light come on a couple of times and still no junk sucked from the tank.

Replace cap/rotor...check for spark on all four cylinders. If it is blue and good...like the other folks said...may be vacuum hose off somewhere. Or the other injectors.

One remote possibility is if you run mostly at half tank or below and depending on winter weather where you live, can get condensation in tank that builds up water, finally starts making the engine miss. But that is sort of rare.

The way it is missing at idle though...have to find out if the spark is good first thing. If spark is solid, then you know it is either fuel problem or vacuum. I like using Hy Per Lube for an oil additive, but I hesitate dumping any chemicals into the gas tank on these older rigs. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they just cause problems. Once you get this truck running again, I would start avoiding Seven Eleven or any Mom and Pop stores for gas, and stick with the major outlets. Shell, Chevron, Arco, etc.
__________________

1997 King Cab XE, 5-sp, canopy, AC/PS, KA24E, 120,000 miles. Need a technical manual? Drop me a message. Chilton's for amateurs.

Last edited by XoXSciFiGuy; 01-24-2020 at 06:15 PM.
XoXSciFiGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Birdman74 (01-27-2020)
Old 01-25-2020, 03:14 AM   #10
jp2code
Software Developer
 
jp2code's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Longview, TX [USA]
Age: 50
Posts: 9,478
Vehicle: 94 LB 2x4 Manual VG33e
Thanks: 1,482
Thanked 1,265 Times in 1,114 Posts
Default

Sounds like you are chasing symptoms.

You can't do that on these trucks because the ECU creates issues.

Pull the codes (there is a link to how to do that in my signature below), and focus on the issues that the ECU is complaining about.

Don't waste your time and money trying to fix symptoms that are generated by the ECU.
__________________
Joe (not a mechanic!) Don't have an account? EMAIL ME
Factory Service Manuals: https://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/Hardbody/
Walk-through: Checking Nissan Trouble Codes
1994 VG30E to VG33E with H256 Cams

jp2code is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Birdman74 (01-27-2020), h.stickeye (01-25-2020), nunya (01-25-2020)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.