4 link suspension sticky?

[hardbodymodder]

I presented this idea over at brand X before everything went down so let's get this going here perhaps?? my idea is to have different members put up photo's and vital stats on their 4 links/backhalfs/notches whatever to help those of us building our trucks rear end suspension. What do you guys think?? hey mods can it be a sticky?? post them pics yo!!

[Twisted Minis]

I already posted an article in hopes of a sticky. I have a lot of other info I can post as well.

[hardbodymodder]

sweet!!

[lolyfe]

yeah i like it

[drginazzhb92]

x2 i like that idea

[mtroup]

i like this idea as well as i am about to start my back-end build

[Mr.Ryan]

heres mine mounted to cross member between bed mounts lower bars go to front leaf spring shackles just moved up a lil so it can lay out. both upper and lower bars are 23" adjustable from SD
http://infamousnissan.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=86&pictureid=838
http://infamousnissan.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=86&pictureid=837

[lolyfe]

alright i got a SD 4 link, RE7 bags, 8 in notch, boxed in the frame, Smoothed all the welds, and toxic shocks

http://infamousnissan.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=52&pictureid=521

[SkinnyG]

Why do people build with the upper trailing arm pivots on different axis? Wouldn't that introduce a lot of bind in the suspension?

[lolyfe]

Why do people build with the upper trailing arm pivots on different axis? Wouldn't that introduce a lot of bind in the suspension?
only if u get an extreme amount of lift

[Scrappy]

lolyfe your setup looks pretty good for the most part.

The only thing is: I'm not sure that your shocks are doing you any good on such an angle.
Please someone correct me if i'm wrong

[SkinnyG]

only if u get an extreme amount of lift

Define "extreme." From my autocross experience, where we really limit suspension movement through ~fairly~ stiff spring rates (3X factory on my last car) and sway bars, that kind of misalignment is just BAD all over. Especially with marginally-compliant polyurethane bushings.

Not trying to be a bastard, it just doesn't make sense to me.

G

[Ice]

Define "extreme." From my autocross experience, where we really limit suspension movement through ~fairly~ stiff spring rates (3X factory on my last car) and sway bars, that kind of misalignment is just BAD all over. Especially with marginally-compliant polyurethane bushings.

Not trying to be a bastard, it just doesn't make sense to me.

G

r u talking about the upper bars how theyre angled on the axle ? bushing not being straight ?

[SkinnyG]

The axis of the trailing arm front bushings need to be on the same axis.

The axis of the trailing arm rear bushings need to be on the same axis.

Granted, longer trailing arms will produce less bind, but it will still be there.

When you ditch the radius arms (strut rods?) from the front, you always make sure the new bushing and the existing bushing are in perfect alignment. Think of a door with both hinges pointing on completely different directions.

I know GM and others have done their factory four link suspension with the bushings at different angles, but they are also notorious for bind, and it gets even worse when you put polyurethane in there.

If you use rod ends instead of bushings, this is a non-issue.

G

[SkinnyG]

Despite this being a three-link, what he's done the forward upper pivots is what I think should be done:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x254/dragthatshit666/miketruck013.jpg

I've search here and another custom nissan forum :) but it sure looks like few people are aligning the bushings.

G

[nissandoordragger]

hey whats wrong with my 3 link? its got 3/4 heims on the axle so it articulates like none other i can lay the door on the ground and have the other a foot off the ground

[SkinnyG]

Despite this being a three-link, what he's done the forward upper pivots is what I think should be done

Or are you caught up in the fact that I'm comparing pivots on a 3-link to the pivots on the previously posted 4-link?

[nissandoordragger]

no i thought when you said despite being a 3 link you were refering to them as being bad but nwow that i read it again i realize we were discousing 4 links not just any style

[lolyfe]

lolyfe your setup looks pretty good for the most part.

The only thing is: I'm not sure that your shocks are doing you any good on such an angle.
Please someone correct me if i'm wrong
no they work real well as at ride height as the back of the truck lifts they angle more...they get to be about 50 to 60 degrees

[lolyfe]

Define "extreme." From my autocross experience, where we really limit suspension movement through ~fairly~ stiff spring rates (3X factory on my last car) and sway bars, that kind of misalignment is just BAD all over. Especially with marginally-compliant polyurethane bushings.

Not trying to be a bastard, it just doesn't make sense to me.

G
your talking about the upper link bars right... the truck gets about 12 inches of lift before i run into any real problem the the turck doesn't lift that height so i do really have a problem anr the bushing i have in there help but your right i helped do an independent rear end where we used trailing arms and mounted them angled and there was some serious binding problems on only about 6 inches of travel but we solved it with some superpivot from SD

[ScottXGTR]

lets try and clear this up a little. . .with diagrams!!! (kids, you can make these at home. no need to get your parents permission)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a307/scottxgtr/aligned.jpg

so you are saying that the links on the right are aligned along the axis correct? and the ones on the left are not aligned.

ive seen trucks done both ways. most are done as pictured on the left, including mine. i cant complain of any binding or other ill affects. using your hinge analogy, i see what your talking about with different angles. the suspension does not really bind, but it might be pulled forward, or pushed back, adjusting the pinion angle.

[SkinnyG]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Nice pictures! That's why they pay you the big bucks. :)

The axle will be pulled forward or back and adjust the pinion angle regardless of how the bushings are mounted. This is based on the lengths of the arms and their angles of inclination with respect to ground.

Let's say the chassis ends are mounted far apart, and the axle ends are close together as shown in post #7 of this thread.

On the example on the left, if you were to raise the suspension, the rotation of the arms are such that the axle ends would try to move apart from each other. They are restricted from doing this (binding) by their mounts, yet permitted to move by the flexibility of the bushings.

If the bushings do not flex enough to allow movement (say, bronze bushings as an extreme example), you will break mounts off the axle and/or chassis.

I know it's worked fine for many vehicles both custom and OEM, but if I were designing my own suspension, it would make more sense to me that the pivot axis are in alignment. You can't get pre-fab trailing arms like this, though.

G

[Twisted Minis]

Both ways will work in that diagram above, but I prefer the one to the right when I build my own. However when both bushings are not straight, they will bind throughout the entire travel. I see it a lot, and this picture is a good example of that.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7936/user6pic8381224982735id1.jpg

The the bushings on the pumpkin are at an angle, and the frame side is parallel with the crossmembers? That will bind, all the time. You might not notice it, because the bushings can give pretty far when they are really forced to. But if you replaced them with a delrin bushing, or a bronze bushing, your suspension wouldn't move very far.

I build my links with parallel bushings, like so:
http://www.streetsource.com/uploads/Ownerprofiles/TwistedMinis/5152008123559AM86991.jpg
http://www.streetsource.com/uploads/Ownerprofiles/TwistedMinis/64200810610AM671.jpg
http://www.streetsource.com/uploads/Ownerprofiles/TwistedMinis/64200810824AM96141.jpg
http://www.streetsource.com/uploads/Ownerprofiles/TwistedMinis/1232007125555AM11861.jpg

[Mr.Ryan]

Lots of trucks have been built the same way as mine with no trouble, aswell as alot of factory link setups on daily driven cars i see them at work all the time, i'm not running 3 feet of lift so the slight binding is not an issue, I do agree that with stiffer bushings there would be a more difficult time moving thu it's travel stroke, but i can lift mine by hand, (not a jack) and feel very little binding, i feel building a 4 link this way is perfectly fine the other design is just an improvement upon this style, BTW this is also my first mini built by myself and have been learning along the way, I can't afford to spend $$$$$$ to send my truck to someone else for them to build, and i want to say I built it, not, it's mine but i gave someone else my money cuz i refuse to learn from experience, no offense to you shop owners, some people just don't have the time or facilities to do the work them selves. I have stayed within my means and am building the truck I want not like i'm trying to build a coilover cantilever 16 link cuz i wanna impress all my peeps.

[nislo]

Your truck looks great ryan, keep on keepin on! Like all of us I am sure you will redo the suspension on your truck several times. Later changes can be made, for now it's fine. Looking forward to seeing you drag that thing in carlisle:thumb:

[Twisted Minis]

I didn't mean it as disrespect, if you took it that way. I am just pointing it out so people know in the future, because it could be avoided by running longer tabs on the outside of the bushing, or shorter on the inside to even it out. But that setup will work for years on down the road. You will just replace some bushings a few months before I will.

[hardbodymodder]

MORE SET-UP PICS!!!!! :thumb:

[Ice]

i agree with whats been said about the binding and stuff...
most people do the links with that angle, cause they buy the pre-made 4links , so instead of making new ones , they use what they got.... as same for me... if a customer brings in a link and on a budget.. im gonna use what they give me if it will work... and not cut it up and etc ..... unless they ask and pay more...
ive done links many many dif ways..... i like the bushings on one end, and Hiem's w/teflon on the other to reduce binding.. . but not all people want that...

i personaly have a 1995 Nissan thats been bagged over 10 years on a pet-n-jake (sp) 4link with 1.25 od bars on 2" wide bushings... it has over 150k miles on them... and the bushings are still good.. only problem i run into , is the jam nuts like to come loose... in which due to the minor binding from articulation in the axle.. but this is not a daily thing i have to fix , maybe once every 2 weeks.... now once i build me another truck for myself, it will be setup better... point is , ive ran over 170k miles with that kind of setup .. and no problems..

but , like i said before... it is better to keep things aligned or use heims or superpivots.....
so either way will work fine, its just the other way will act and be better (alignment of links)..

but lets keep this thread to what the writer wanted ... pics of people set-ups.....

[pacific coast]

Im with Ice lets see more setup pix. I do agree with Ice on this point too. Having bushings on 1 end & a heim at the other. Thats the way ill be building my bars for the 620. Just makes sense that the axle will have an easier time moving side to side.:cool:

[dwnshfter]

post some pics up PCD, i wanna see how you do yours before i do mine. and how are you doing your bags? on axle?

[SkinnyG]

but lets keep this thread to what the writer wanted ... pics of people set-ups.....

True, true! With some explanations of WHY thrown in here, this thread is far more valuable than merely copying someone's photograph without understanding what they're doing.

But I do like the pictures....

[manic_mechanic]

how about the triangulated link set up from S.D. where the top link set up is a one piece wishbone?

[88hb]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/larryelcamino/DSC03251.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/larryelcamino/DSC00946.jpg

[manic_mechanic]

hey 88? what kind of system you runnin with your cut through. I have 1 10 in the cneter and 1 pioneer 4 channel on the left and 1 2 channel pioneer on the right bith on slide out tracks.

[88hb]

hey 88? what kind of system you runnin with your cut through. I have 1 10 in the cneter and 1 pioneer 4 channel on the left and 1 2 channel pioneer on the right bith on slide out tracks.

i have 2 10s and a matching amp.

but im probably gonna pull them out and seal up the hole and install them in my nova. im having big time issues with my engine, so its nova time!:nana2:

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/larryelcamino/DSC02003.jpg