putting boost to a non-turbo motor?

[yeti_'87HB]

i'm thinking about putting a small turbo and maybe a mild cam on my Z24 motor. something small like a T25 or something. i only want to make about 10-15p.s.i. max.

my main question is, what kind of gasket material do i need to use to make sure that the boost isn't going to blow all the seals and gaskets out of it..

i know most of you will say that i should just do an SR20DET swap, but i don't have the time or money to do a complete motor swap on my daily driver. thats too much down time

[niz]

you just need to be careful. you should go with some arp studs to hold everything together and some kind of a metal aftermarket head gasket to keep it together. but don't go to hard since you aren't buildin the motor any.

[yeti_'87HB]

i've been looking around on the net and stuff and haven't been able to find any forged pistons. i want to build it right, forged pistons, new connecting rods, new valves and lifters, banced crankshaft...but its near impossible to find that kind of stuff for an old Z24i nissan motor

[burrsg101]

not sayin you should do an sr20 swap but you do realize if you build the z24 itll be down way longer than just swapping a different engine in. also i cant remember are the z24s throttle body injected or carbed?

[yeti_'87HB]

carbed. if you plan it right, a turbo install can be faster than a swap. even if you waited until you had every part, screw, gasket and sealant possible, i small turbo install would be quicker than a full motor swap. if i just add a turbo, i don't have to change the harness or computer.i am aware that putting a turbo on a carbed, non-turbo engine, i'll have to re-tune the carb

[burrsg101]

yes just putting a turbo on is way quicker usually, but you had mentioned something about totally rebuilding it. youd have to pull hte motor for that anyway then. but as for turboing with a carb, i think you need an actuator of some sort to open the carb up more when boost hits. im not a fan of carbs, but my buddy explained it to me a couple years ago about how a carbed turbo set up works, but im pretty positive you need a special carb.

[nismopu]

you can essentially boost any carb. The problem lies with the brass floats used in the hitachi carburators, they will crush under boost. This has been discussed so much till ive been blue in the face. I think I recently even posted a link to a guys setup from nico whos doing a MPFI(multiportfuelinjection) setup from an older z22 out of a 80's 200sx. Then you buy the manifold from jgstools.com. You dont NEED forged pistons, I dont care what people tell you is the right way and the wrong way to do things. If you needed forged pistons then automakers wouldnt offer an warranty on a boosted vehicle. NO factory engine built today features forged pistons. If youre going above 350hp and youre revving the crap out of your engine then YES by all means beef up the bottome end. This isnt cheap american iron(chevy4.3 or 305), this is a japanese 4cyl.

My friends old z24 was a stock bottom end truck running an sds extra injector controller, z22 intake manifold, JGS turbo manifold, f-15 ecs heat exchanger(intercooler), and a chrysler t3 turbo. It would light em up in all gears and spank the crap out of other rice burners.

Open up your wallet and see how much cash you can ACTUALLY make come out of it. Then plan your build around that REALISTIC cash flow.

Also, stop with throwing around of boost numbers a boost number isnt something you aspire too. HP and 1/4 mile times are what define your build. Remember boost is irrelevant until you have a hp goal in mind, sizing your turbo determines the boost pressure in relation to your hp goal. you follow? peace.

[yeti_'87HB]

it runs the other way too, you can build a motor with a HP goal, and use a turbo setup that will achieve that. but you can do it the other way. have a p.s.i goal and work at it from there. i'm not looking to put as much boost as it can handle so i can squeeze the most power out of it. i just want a little more kick.its an old motor with 200xxxkms and i fear that if i wanted to put more than 10-15p.s.i., it wouldn't be able to handle it and i'd have to pay a lot more to build it up so it CAN...i mostly just want to be able to light em up whenever i want, scare some local ricers that think v-tecs are untouchable, and maybe some milde "drifting"

[burrsg101]

i agree with you saying forged pistons arent necassary but forged rods are. forged pistons will just take more abuse ie detonation. if you have a good tune then no need to worry.

[nismopu]

it runs the other way too, you can build a motor with a HP goal, and use a turbo setup that will achieve that. but you can do it the other way. have a p.s.i goal and work at it from there. i'm not looking to put as much boost as it can handle so i can squeeze the most power out of it. i just want a little more kick.its an old motor with 200xxxkms and i fear that if i wanted to put more than 10-15p.s.i., it wouldn't be able to handle it and i'd have to pay a lot more to build it up so it CAN...i mostly just want to be able to light em up whenever i want, scare some local ricers that think v-tecs are untouchable, and maybe some milde "drifting"

youre un able to grasp what I am saying right now. So, I suggest you go out and buy the book maximum boost, in there it will explain everything. You could throw 20psi to a KA all day long from a crappy t2 turbo but you would be making more heat than power. I have boost KA's with just as many mile as your and vg's with more miles than yours. About the only thing you should always do when boosting a KA is replace the head gasket and tighten the headbolts to spec. I have done it without replacing the HG before but it will always go due to head lift and weak nissan stretch bolts. Boost pressure is a number and has only to do with a guestimated power output specific to the turbo you selected. Far as rods go, theyve been proven to be quite strong above 350hp but safely is 350hp or less.
Anyway, just go pickup maximum boost or ask for it for christmas and you will better understand. peace.

[yeti_'87HB]

naw, i understand what you're saying now. i was so worried about blowing the head off my engine, i didn't really look at it that way...what kind of turbo would i use if i only wanted to get an extra 100 or so HP. i'm gunna be fully re-doing my exhaust, custom making an true cold air intake, and putting in a mild cam. the cam is rated for an extra 50-60HP, good cold air kits usually 15-20HP, and properly set up exhaust is usually 20-30HP. all together i want to be getting about 300HP or so....what kind of turbo could i get, along with a small FMIC

[burrsg101]

i have a mistu oem t 25 id sell you cheap. they bring dsms to about 300hp by just raising boost

[yeti_'87HB]

what is "dsms"? and would that turbo alone make about 200HP+? cause the other mods i want to do are gunna add about 100HP, and the Z24 motors have 103HP stock. and someone said its not good to go over 350HP with out building up the bottom end and stuff. how much would you sell me the T25 for?

[nismopu]

Not to downplay your sale man but mitsu t-25's use the inefficient round port turbine inlets and theyre a very small four bolt pattern. Where as most turbo manifolds made for the ka24e/napz24e exhaust port design are a garrett style flange. You can however buy an adapter for it to work from ATPturbo.com.

Far as cams go you dont want to much lobe seperation on your cam for fear of additional boost lag and or falling off boost during shifting between gears. High lift stock duration cams perform well in this type of application. The best bang for the buck turbos IMO are the ones used on rb engines(rb20&rb25) and z31 turbos(vg30et&vg30det), they can perform really well with low boost pressures, fast spool, and a decent top end with a top out of about 300hp.

Intercooler isnt really a necessity for your setup of only a hundred HP increase but I would reccomend any ebay intercooler where the outlets stick straight out and can support 400hp. peace.

[nislo]

its not worth the hasles boosting a carb-ed engine, the T25 peaks at about 15psi and won't last very long at that output. I wouldn't take a t25 past 11psi. IMO it would make more sense to find yourself a redtop sr20det, do a simple FMIC upgrade mafs to a z32 mafs and if you keep it in its stock location you should recirc. your BOV. Set psi to 11 max, send you ecu to www.importintelligence.com have them tune it for you mafs and boost remove rev limit and such. Then get yourself a 3 inch back exhaust and a wideband air/fuel sensor to monitor mixture to identify serious problems. Should be good for like 280-290HP

[nismopu]

At a cost of over 3k! How does that make sense dude? lol! The napz engine has been boosted before and carbed its been done. Isnt that just as tried and true as an sr20det? Please go read a book on this stuff. please. peace.

[yeti_'87HB]

i appreciate all the input. but what i'm really looking for is, what kind of setup would i need to run to safely put some boost to my Z24i, without rebuilding the bottom end(i understand that i should put in forged crank arms), without blowing the head off it, and without going over 350HP. i don't have the time or money to swap in an SR20DET or anything else. it costs waaaayy too much to get a good SR or VG with an uncut harness and ECU. i priced it out last month sometime and it would cost me about $2500-$3000cdn. for that price, i could save about $500 more and throw in a 350sbc, or bagg it and BD it.

these are my main questions:
what kind of turbo should i run?
is there any turbo exhast manifolds for a Z24i motor?
what kind of intercooler could i run?
what is the safest and cheapest way to build the engine to handle the extra power and boost?

[nismopu]

i appreciate all the input. but what i'm really looking for is, what kind of setup would i need to run to safely put some boost to my Z24i, without rebuilding the bottom end(i understand that i should put in forged crank arms), without blowing the head off it, and without going over 350HP. i don't have the time or money to swap in an SR20DET or anything else. it costs waaaayy too much to get a good SR or VG with an uncut harness and ECU. i priced it out last month sometime and it would cost me about $2500-$3000cdn. for that price, i could save about $500 more and throw in a 350sbc, or bagg it and BD it.

these are my main questions:
what kind of turbo should i run?
is there any turbo exhast manifolds for a Z24i motor?
what kind of intercooler could i run?
what is the safest and cheapest way to build the engine to handle the extra power and boost?

jgstools.com for the manifold or check out ka-t.org for a single cam KA manifold.
z31 or rb20/25 turbo would be good
and change out the head gasket
maybe an intercooler from a turbo probe might work out for your setup and they have an oil cooler usually attached to them too.
you can get a carb suitable for boost without doing a box style from carburetors.com

oh and all rods since the late 60's have been forged in nissan engines so dont worry about those.
peace.

[yeti_'87HB]

awsome, thanks a lot man, thats the info i was looking for.

more questions:
would any turbo from an RB20/25 work, like any year?
i'll have to buy an oil filter bypass adapter with threaded adapter holes? like this:
http://store.summitracing.com/largeimage.asp?part=EAR-510ERL&Prod=Earl%27s+Performance+Oil+Filter+Bypass+Adapte rs&img=ear-510erl_w.jpg

i did a quick ebay search, and it said that RB20/25's use a t3/t4 turbo. is this correct?

[yeti_'87HB]

also, i thought the flange and bolt pattern for KA's and NAPZ engines were different

[nismopu]

you wouldnt need that stuff, just get the jgstools.com kit. the ka and napz ports are different shaped but the bolt pattern is the same. peace.

[Mr.Ryan]

It's the intake manifold bolt pattern that is different, but the exhaust side is the same the only difference is the shape if the exhaust runners, and if your carefull you can slightly correct that with a dremel styled tool with a carbide bit to open up the ports a lil bit to match each other.

[burrsg101]

its not worth the hasles boosting a carb-ed engine, the T25 peaks at about 15psi and won't last very long at that output. I wouldn't take a t25 past 11psi. IMO it would make more sense to find yourself a redtop sr20det, do a simple FMIC upgrade mafs to a z32 mafs and if you keep it in its stock location you should recirc. your BOV. Set psi to 11 max, send you ecu to www.importintelligence.com (http://www.importintelligence.com) have them tune it for you mafs and boost remove rev limit and such. Then get yourself a 3 inch back exhaust and a wideband air/fuel sensor to monitor mixture to identify serious problems. Should be good for like 280-290HP
t 25s come stock running 12 psi, and ive run them at 15 psi all day for over a tear with no problems. a dsm is an eclipse talon or laser, its their "code name" but yes they do have the stupid round inlet port design, but they still spool good and make decent power. but yes the turbo from z31s uses a t3 input which is better but they came with either a t25 or a small t3 depending on the year z31 it was. if you were interested in my t25 id let it go cheap.

[nislo]

in the red top sr the t25 is run around 7-8psi max stock and with the no boost signal to wastegate the turbo hits 15psi peak at least on the redtop I built. I have heard that was their peak.

[burrsg101]

really? ive never really looked into sr20s that much but both the first adn second gen dsms run 12 psi stock. but as stated earlier psi doesnt really matter. they run different pressure because they have different things resisting them. the sr20 head probably flows a hell of a lot better than a stock dsm head so even though its a lower psi you rstill flowing the same amount of air. the first gen has a 14b turbo though thats a hair bigger, but thats like the first mod everyone does is turn the boost up to 15 because thats what the stock fuel pump and turbo will handle, and that puts it around 300hp with just adding an exhaust because the stock exhaust is horribly undersized at 2". im in the process now of doing this to my 1g awd.

[yeti_'87HB]

burrgs101, how much do you want for that t25?. theres a guy local to me that is selling a stock turbo from an RB25 skyline for $200. thats a t3 tho right? whats the difference between a t3 and a t25? which one is better/more reliable/easier to use for custom applications like mine?

[burrsg101]

honestly the t3 will produce more power, but if your only shooting for 300 hp then youd probably want a slightly smaller turbo becuase it would spool sooner and faster. as stated earlier you can get an adapter to put it to a dsm flange which are really cheap. i have an ad up for it on here, id probably let it go for like 100 + shipping

[yeti_'87HB]

do you know where i could get this adapter?
and why exactly do i need it, there's been so many people tossing around different things, i'm confused. if i went with one of those KA turbo manifold, would the T25 fit, or is it the type with the weird round port, which is why i need the adapter

[nis720]

The JGS seems to be the one that best clears the brake booster. All the ones I've seen for single cam KA motors are T3.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d193/nis720/nis720/PICT1436a.jpg

[nismopu]

Sr20 heads dont flow as much as alot of people think, considering boost comes on alot quicker in my friends stock headed DSM I am willing to bet the 4g outflows the SR. The SR's heads run really long and deep ports to increase the bottom end that people think they tend to lack. I honestly think a KA and sr pull about the same from the bottom end. I mean a freakin KA24de head outflows a stock SR head on several different flowbenchs. You could probly buy burgs's t25 and get the adapter for cheaper than 200 bucks. You wont find an exhaust manifold with anything smaller than a t3 flange. peace.

[IThaJokaI]

Why do these threads get started every few days? You people should start reading, and if you dont know what your talking about dont put info in.

You DO NOT need forged internals as NISMOPU said, not unless you are going for bigger numbers. I have seen hondas make 400fwhp on stock TOOTH PICK rods and all stock internals.

They only thing you NEED to go turbo is fuel and air, and a good carb/ecu tune.

Now for a t25 setup, max boost is somewhere around 18 PSI IIRC. Pushing 15 is asking to blow the turbo very fast.

Now keep in mind I didnt read the entire thread, because I could see by just the first page people were putting in info that was wrong or unrelated.

Listen to what NISMOPU has to say, he is very right in everything he has said.

But here is what I would do.

Buy a t3 from a ford/z31
upgrade fuel pump to a 255
all new vaccuum lines and new headgasket
nice sized FMIC
either get your carbs tuned to run with boost, or go MPFI
then just make sure you have someone that can tune the carb or tune your ECU for handling the *15PSI* you want to throw at the motor.

Then get out there, have a good time and show some hondas whats up.

[yeti_'87HB]

where can i find this adapter to get a t3 turbo to work on a header made for a t25. i'm assuming thats what the adapter is for, becuase the different ports on the turbos

[IThaJokaI]

^ any shop can make one.. Or buy 2 flanges and make it yourself.. But good luck clearing the hood and or inner fenders. Its going to be atleast 2-3" tall.

[yeti_'87HB]

what will be, the adapter? cause i found on on ebay that is about 1"-1.5" thick

[IThaJokaI]

Then get that one, wont guarantee that it will last though. Either that, or have your T3 flange cut off and a t2 flange welded on... Shouldn't cost but like $50..

[blakenissan07]

dude just do a motor swappp

in done draggggn

[Rocket]

turbo it dude, do it, i want to see what pressure you run and what you do to the engine to cope with it.

just run the t3 if its easier to get the manifold for it, saves alot of screwing around

[yeti_'87HB]

yea man, thats what i was going ot do, i read your thread about using a supercharger on you Z24, i can't wait till i can do mine. i'm slowly piecing it together

[Rocket]

yeah im still looking into how much boost i can run, ill get everything together and bang, ill do it all in one go, instead of screwing around n then it doesnt get done.

our static compression ratio is something retarded like 8.3:1 (z24)

Have a look at :
http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/Tech_blowerintro.htm

what is your front bumper off? i reckon it looks mad as.

[Big_John]

Who has put a turbo on their truck? and who has the dyno sheets to prove the power they make? im trying to decide what turbo to go with

[JsD21HB]

here ya guys go
http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42336

[jcjcsoccerkid]

after installing everything and you get youre ready to get the ecu tuned.....

1. where and how does it get tuned?
2. does this remove the speed limiter?

[JsD21HB]

1.)could either do it yourself or get nistune, if you wanna try doing it yourself then get a wideband and a socketed ecu. and read alot on eccs.hybridka.com. its not really that hard just be safe so u dont blow your shit up.
2.)yes it does.

[Big_John]

has anyone turbo'd their shit and dyno'd it? what kind of turbo and motor work does it have?

[stupit racing]

napz carbed engines can be boosted, and you can run ka single cam forged pistion on a z24 block. here's a pic of my buddie's boosted 720, carburated.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l100/wldthng_napz/edsturbo.jpg


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l100/wldthng_napz/eddiebug.jpg

[Rocket]

what numbers has he got on the rollers?

and besides the pistons, what else has been modified

[stupit racing]

i dont know what the numbers are but i'll let you know what it runs in a 1/4 in a week or so.

[Rocket]

awesome. good luck

[nismopu]

Woah WTF? where did this come from? i wanna come watch!! This wouldnt happen to be your old z24 would it? i remember back when you had the "stock" z24 with sidedrafts and nitrous. You couldnt break out of the 13's or something though right? Sorry, for all the questions. lol!

[turtlehead]

did anyone thing to tell the op that his engine is throttle body injected, not carbed?

unless hes talking about a different truck then the one in his avatar.

[Rocket]

What was modified (driveline wise) to handle nitrous, I was thinking about doing this for the drags as my mums boyfriend who lives with us had his car blown up on a dyno and has a nitrous kit from the old engine (he went bigger and twin turbo on the rebuild)

[S14Juggalo]

Im new to this site and i dont have a pick up USED to have an 89 HB and loved it I just want to say that i love this section right here hahahah KA's Are the shit in my opinion!

[S14Juggalo]

You are a wise man nismopu! I would swap out your z24 and just throw in a ka24de from a s13-s14 for parts are more abundant and cheaper then sr20det's which SUCK unless its a fwd sr! And nismopu you are a wise mug good sir!